If responding to bullying is "becoming the abuser," then what is the recourse? Bullies like what they do. They are constantly rewarded; their behavior is lauded as "tough action" and idolized, especially when they are mentors and coaches. Emotional abuse is no different than physical in the damage it inflicts on the psyche; we've been conditioned to think of a physical strike as morally worse than emotional cruelty because people who are empowered by emotional cruelty are in positions of wealth and power, and can call upon others to inflict physical violence when necessary.
Rock was wrong, going after "low hanging fruit". It *is* an occupational hazard of comedy. What's funny to you... You simply don't make a joke of medical distress and the trauma that might come of it. You also have to know your audience. Case closed.
By the same token, one of my Child Protection *and* music friends invoked *The 4th Wall* between performer and audience. He recounted his own frightening experience with that, onstage. We who follow (the) Razz (legendary rock band from Washington, DC, late 70's) hold the band's own terrifying misadventure, "the Cross Keys Massacre", as part of the legend, though not to celebrate. Smith should have stayed in his damn seat.
It is not my way to slap someone, but I also will not tolerate shit said about my wife. The former bullying victim has learned how to defend himself and his own. (Though the most important lesson was that I was *allowed* to defend myself. Lessons learned from Andrew.)
Yeah, Will was wrong, but Chris had it coming.
P.S. Modified because a friend called me out for the term "bitch-slapped".
I am a believer in what you feed grows...and in an unintentional way, Will Smith fed Chris Rock's stupid, insensitive remarks. If it was done off camera, it would have been more about defending her honor, and less about being the hero. Just my opinion. Also, the fact that he had such little self control to realize that cameras were rolling, and the repercussions it would carry, says a lot about him. Chris Rock is an asshole. The slap could have waited. As someone kids look up to, what kind of an example is he setting? And in the same light, what kind of an example of Chris Rock setting?? Cruelty and bullying is so out of hand that it makes me scared for my kids. However, like I would tell my kids..."Use your words!" Will could have easily verbally slayed him and still come out on top, and not looking like a violent out of control guy. But what do I know? Lol
This kind of situation is so difficult, I think, because getting it right relies on nuance, judgement, and a finely tuned sense of justice — all of which are often super scarce, particularly in the heat of the moment. Which is why we end up imposing blanket policies, like “violence is never the answer,” so that judgment etc. never have to get called into question at all. But, as you point out Tom, bullies rely on those blanket policies. And in this case, I think Smith got it right. I’m not convinced Smith is the type of man who would get it right every time — which I guess makes it feel a little dangerous to me. But Chris Rock has got to stop punching down & getting paid to do it. And that he punched down against a Black woman with a medical issue on Oscars night when she’s seated right there and can’t leave — well, I’m glad there was someone there to get the fuck you across to him in a way that I hope Rock’ll remember for a good long time.
We can’t even say “right” and “wrong” without weighing every action of a person like Anubis with the heart of a dead person against a feather on the scales of the afterlife, so maybe I should just say that I liked that he smacked him for being an ass. Rock has the right to say it, and also get smacked in the head for insulting someone. He’s not silenced at all. Perhaps there will be a “chilling effect” on insulting people. As long as we don’t normalize smacking people in the mouth for having opinions…
I think Rock had it coming. First of all, it was a man of equal fame. It was a dumb thing to continue his habit of mocking Jada in public. Why? Did she ever turn him down for a date? That's usually when men lash out at women outside their orbit. There are all kinds of ways to dissect this: man vs man; black man vs black man; black man vs black woman; buff dude vs scrawny mouthy dude. It was a chivalrous slap. Will Smith could have beat the living hell out Chris Rock but he didn't. I suppose he could have leaned in and said, "don't speak about my wife, you loudmouth asshole," but he didn't. Jada could've gotten up and went all Kanye on the mic or slapped him herself. Maybe it's because non-violence is part of my own regimen that I'm at my end with verbal violence being acceptable. I spend half my afternoons consuming murder stories and then watch comedies and standup. But what repercussions would Chris Rock have faced for belittling a black woman? None. We all know it. It was obvious that Will Smith felt more pain inside than Chris Rock -- you can see it in his tears and shaking during his acceptance speech. Chris Rock will wake up today and ridicule someone else. And next year, he'll probably find another reason to take his shit out on JPS because he feels a need to target her. I usually think of Chris Rock as an intelligent comedian, but male comics have been getting away with way too much. Let him be an example. #GoodTrouble
Sorry, Tommy, you're wrong. A man who will hit someone else in my defense will eventually hit me because I wasn't grateful enough. That's my personal experience. We don't know that Jada asked for that. We don't know how she felt about it. If she did ask for it, what's someone else fighting her battles for? If she didn't ask for it, he was even more out of line, and he drew a LOT more attention to a stupid, unkind remark than it ever would otherwise have gotten. Chris Rock was in the wrong. If Will Smith had wanted to call him out for it after the fact, he could have done that. Instead, he turned all of this into a story about him. If a man did that for me, I'd be leaving him that day.
I agree that he shouldn't have done it as a defense of Jada without her blessing. And you're right, he did make it all about him. It would have been different if Jada did it, but I'm sure she knew that she'd be excoriated for defending herself, even verbally, while Will gets to play the knight defending her honor. For me, it's just a jerk getting slapped.
You describe well how intergenerational trauma is transmitted, how the abused feels fully justified to become the abuser.
Overreaction in a moment when one is feeling uncertain about one's self worth is explained well in Kristin Neff's book Self Compassion.
I could not disagree with you more as to whether it is right or "good."
If responding to bullying is "becoming the abuser," then what is the recourse? Bullies like what they do. They are constantly rewarded; their behavior is lauded as "tough action" and idolized, especially when they are mentors and coaches. Emotional abuse is no different than physical in the damage it inflicts on the psyche; we've been conditioned to think of a physical strike as morally worse than emotional cruelty because people who are empowered by emotional cruelty are in positions of wealth and power, and can call upon others to inflict physical violence when necessary.
Tommy, four days later and I gotta reevaluate.
Rock was wrong, going after "low hanging fruit". It *is* an occupational hazard of comedy. What's funny to you... You simply don't make a joke of medical distress and the trauma that might come of it. You also have to know your audience. Case closed.
By the same token, one of my Child Protection *and* music friends invoked *The 4th Wall* between performer and audience. He recounted his own frightening experience with that, onstage. We who follow (the) Razz (legendary rock band from Washington, DC, late 70's) hold the band's own terrifying misadventure, "the Cross Keys Massacre", as part of the legend, though not to celebrate. Smith should have stayed in his damn seat.
We await consequences. Peace...
Well said. Rock overstepped way too far and deserved it.
Well said. Rock overstepped way too far and deserved it.
It is not my way to slap someone, but I also will not tolerate shit said about my wife. The former bullying victim has learned how to defend himself and his own. (Though the most important lesson was that I was *allowed* to defend myself. Lessons learned from Andrew.)
Yeah, Will was wrong, but Chris had it coming.
P.S. Modified because a friend called me out for the term "bitch-slapped".
I am a believer in what you feed grows...and in an unintentional way, Will Smith fed Chris Rock's stupid, insensitive remarks. If it was done off camera, it would have been more about defending her honor, and less about being the hero. Just my opinion. Also, the fact that he had such little self control to realize that cameras were rolling, and the repercussions it would carry, says a lot about him. Chris Rock is an asshole. The slap could have waited. As someone kids look up to, what kind of an example is he setting? And in the same light, what kind of an example of Chris Rock setting?? Cruelty and bullying is so out of hand that it makes me scared for my kids. However, like I would tell my kids..."Use your words!" Will could have easily verbally slayed him and still come out on top, and not looking like a violent out of control guy. But what do I know? Lol
Great post, great comments. I don't disagree with anyone. Thanks for this, Tommy.
I will say though that my wife told me she first read it that Will Smith had slapped KID Rock. How much better would THAT have been!
I want to wake up to that news!
This kind of situation is so difficult, I think, because getting it right relies on nuance, judgement, and a finely tuned sense of justice — all of which are often super scarce, particularly in the heat of the moment. Which is why we end up imposing blanket policies, like “violence is never the answer,” so that judgment etc. never have to get called into question at all. But, as you point out Tom, bullies rely on those blanket policies. And in this case, I think Smith got it right. I’m not convinced Smith is the type of man who would get it right every time — which I guess makes it feel a little dangerous to me. But Chris Rock has got to stop punching down & getting paid to do it. And that he punched down against a Black woman with a medical issue on Oscars night when she’s seated right there and can’t leave — well, I’m glad there was someone there to get the fuck you across to him in a way that I hope Rock’ll remember for a good long time.
We can’t even say “right” and “wrong” without weighing every action of a person like Anubis with the heart of a dead person against a feather on the scales of the afterlife, so maybe I should just say that I liked that he smacked him for being an ass. Rock has the right to say it, and also get smacked in the head for insulting someone. He’s not silenced at all. Perhaps there will be a “chilling effect” on insulting people. As long as we don’t normalize smacking people in the mouth for having opinions…
I think Rock had it coming. First of all, it was a man of equal fame. It was a dumb thing to continue his habit of mocking Jada in public. Why? Did she ever turn him down for a date? That's usually when men lash out at women outside their orbit. There are all kinds of ways to dissect this: man vs man; black man vs black man; black man vs black woman; buff dude vs scrawny mouthy dude. It was a chivalrous slap. Will Smith could have beat the living hell out Chris Rock but he didn't. I suppose he could have leaned in and said, "don't speak about my wife, you loudmouth asshole," but he didn't. Jada could've gotten up and went all Kanye on the mic or slapped him herself. Maybe it's because non-violence is part of my own regimen that I'm at my end with verbal violence being acceptable. I spend half my afternoons consuming murder stories and then watch comedies and standup. But what repercussions would Chris Rock have faced for belittling a black woman? None. We all know it. It was obvious that Will Smith felt more pain inside than Chris Rock -- you can see it in his tears and shaking during his acceptance speech. Chris Rock will wake up today and ridicule someone else. And next year, he'll probably find another reason to take his shit out on JPS because he feels a need to target her. I usually think of Chris Rock as an intelligent comedian, but male comics have been getting away with way too much. Let him be an example. #GoodTrouble
Sorry, Tommy, you're wrong. A man who will hit someone else in my defense will eventually hit me because I wasn't grateful enough. That's my personal experience. We don't know that Jada asked for that. We don't know how she felt about it. If she did ask for it, what's someone else fighting her battles for? If she didn't ask for it, he was even more out of line, and he drew a LOT more attention to a stupid, unkind remark than it ever would otherwise have gotten. Chris Rock was in the wrong. If Will Smith had wanted to call him out for it after the fact, he could have done that. Instead, he turned all of this into a story about him. If a man did that for me, I'd be leaving him that day.
I agree that he shouldn't have done it as a defense of Jada without her blessing. And you're right, he did make it all about him. It would have been different if Jada did it, but I'm sure she knew that she'd be excoriated for defending herself, even verbally, while Will gets to play the knight defending her honor. For me, it's just a jerk getting slapped.